In this episode of Blue Leadership, Dennis sits down with Nuno Tavarez, a retired investigative lieutenant from the Placer County DA’s office, nationally recognized cold case detective, and faculty member with the MS LEPSL program at the University of San Diego. With a career spanning 27 years in law enforcement, Nuno shares his experience investigating homicides and serious crimes, including the cold case of Christie Wilson, which was first featured on the CBS show “48 Hours” in 2021, and again in 2023 after Christie’s body was finally found.
In addition to giving his unique perspective on the investigative techniques of that case, Nuno also discusses the science-based interview techniques (SBI) that are transforming police interrogation methods, as well as other highlights from the 80-hour course he teaches for new homicide detectives. As a recently retired law enforcement professional who remains active as an instructor, Nuno also shares his tips for staying engaged and connected in retirement. This episode is captivating from beginning to end, especially for anyone working in homicide, involved in interviewing or nearing retirement.
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Ret. Lieutenant Nuno Tavares was
Transcript
Madi: Welcome to the Blue Leadership Podcast hosted by Dennis Nayor, a retired multi agency police chief from the state of New York. Blue Leadership is a podcast by law enforcement for today’s law enforcement leaders, taking you inside the experiences and careers of public safety experts from across the country.
Dennis Nayor: Hello everyone and welcome to episode 36 of Blue Leadership. Today’s guest is going to be Nuno Tavarez. So Nuno is a retired investigative lieutenant from the Placer County DA’s office near Sacramento, california, 27 years, in law enforcement. lead, instructor with California Post Police Officer Standards and Training. He’s a core part of the faculty cadre of the University of San Diego’s LEPSL team. Law Enforcement and Public Safety Leadership Master’s degree program. Um, he has his master’s degree himself in leadership and lots more. But without further ado, Nuno, thank you for being here today.
Nuno Tavares: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Dennis Nayor: I’m going to jump right in. So one of the things that you did in, in your capacity. With the Placer County DA’s office is investigate serious crimes, homicides, and you also had the opportunity to investigate one that was a nationally recognized cold case of a woman named Christie Wilson. And can you talk about that case and let the listeners and viewers know?
As much details as you’re comfortable with.
Nuno Tavares: Sure. Yeah, Dennis. Um, it’s one of those cases that, you know, lands on your desk and sometimes it could be just a regular cold case or a missing person or a homicide. Uh, and then. Things turn and it’s getting me gets national media attention and throws in a whole different dynamic and then you’re just along for the ride. And so I’ll take you back to 2005. This case happened in October 4th of 2005. I actually had just got to Placer County in July of 2005. I was working narcotics over at SAC Sheriff. And so I had just come to Placid County. I was brand new. A few months in, I was just settling in, and on October 4th, 2005, a woman by the name of Christie Wilson, who lived in Sacramento, was going through an amicable breakup with her boyfriend, a guy named Danny Berlando. And, uh, that last night, It was a Tuesday night. She was preparing to move back with mom and dad the following day in the Bay Area. Dad was a, uh, robbery sergeant for the San Jose Police Department and mom was a, uh, an executive at a, uh, silicone tech firm. And so she finished packing early. Her boyfriend went to dinner with his parents. And she finished early and decided, I’m going to go to Thunder Valley. It was a brand new Indian casino in our area, kind of a Vegas style casino, beautiful casino, had just opened up a few months earlier. So she got to Thunder Valley at about 630 at night. She went by herself. She gambled for some time at the slots. Um, at about 10 30 at night, she calls her boyfriend and says, Hey, I’m up a hundred bucks on, I’m going to be home soon. Uh, that was the last phone call she made to him as she goes throughout the casino, uh, she decides to go play blackjack at about 11 o’clock at night. At the same time, there’s a guy by the name of Mario Garcia.
Mario was an executive with a large health care firm in the Sacramento area, married with two boys and a wife, lived in a million dollar property in a small town, about 40 minutes from San Diego. away from the casino in the foothills. Um, they have a chance meet at the first blackjack table and they just start talking and gambling. Uh, that table gets kind of cold. So they go to another table where there’s more action. Um, at that table there it’s almost midnight at this point. So at that table, you have a professional musician that just performed. You have a, uh, trauma surgeon, At a large healthcare firm here as well. In fact, it’s the same one Mario works for. Uh, there is a retired banker and, uh, this other retired lady. So it’s, you know, kind of, you’re pretty educated, uh, fun group. The table’s really hot. Uh, everyone’s having a good time. Everyone’s having drinks. Uh, once the table gets cold at about 1 a. m., uh, Christie and Mario decide to leave and, uh, they both get up and they walk out of the casino.
Everything’s on video surveillance. Uh, they get to the front of the casino. Uh, Christie’s pointing at her car, which is parked about three, uh, lanes away from where Mario’s car is. He’s pointing at his. And for unknown reasons, they start to walk towards his car. As they get close to his car, it’s about five or six cars back, so it’s out of range from the camera that’s pointing into the parking lot. However, there was a camera on rotation, and as got close to his car, That camera cleared his car, meaning there’s no more visibility to his vehicle. Uh, when the camera comes back around, his car is actually pulling out, and there’s no sign of Christie, and at that point you can’t tell who’s driving. A few seconds later, Mario’s car, which was a white Camry, pulls in front of the casino. No tinted windows, you can see through it, and you can clearly see Mario is driving, he’s got one hand on the steering wheel, one hand draped over the center console, but no, no, we can’t see Christie. Car goes out to the edge of the driveway and makes a right which leads into our landfill in a very remote area.
It’s mostly farmland. Not the natural way for him to go home, he would have made a left if that was the case. And the car disappears. Uh, Christie’s boyfriend wakes up, uh, the next morning. She’s not there. He starts getting worried, and, um, he starts calling around hospitals, jails. Um, now let me take you back eight months prior to this.
Christie and Danny had a, uh, domestic violence. Um, the case was, the case was never charged. It was, they were both mutual aggressors, were deemed mutual aggressors. So the, they did have a little bit of a sticky relationship eight months prior. Um, so he finally calls mom and dad in the Bay Area about a day later and says, Christie’s missing. Uh, dad being a cop, Uh, they already hated Danny because of the DV, uh, gets immediately suspicious and believes that he’s the one that has something to do with, with Christie being missing. He drives up from the San Francisco Bay Area to our area to look for Christie. Um, he asks Danny to report her missing immediately, but Danny waited 48 hours.
So when we got the call, we immediately suspected that he had something to do with this. So we, um, we investigated that for some time. And then Thunder Valley, the casino, was actively looking through their surveillance footage, but it was, they had to identify where she was based on player cards. So they finally put a timeline together, and that’s when we learned everything I just told you.
Her walking out of the casino, and that Mario was really the last person she walked out with. So we started to interview everyone, including Mario. Uh, his first statement was, I remember gambling with a bunch of people. I do not remember, uh, gambling with a lady named Christie, but yeah, good luck finding her. One thing that the detect, the detective sergeant noticed was that Mario has scratches on his eyes and he had scratches on his mouth. And so the sergeant asked him about that and he said, Mario said, well, I live on five acres and I’m out working on my trees on my tractor and I fell. It’s completely reasonable explanation and the sergeant leaves it at that.
At that first interview, by the way, the sergeant had no idea that Mario was the last person to walk out with her. These videos and the information from the casino was coming very slow. They had 740 cameras. So it took some time to put the storyline together. So later that day, we continue with our investigation of Danny. One of the detectives assigned to that, um, started going through his phone, started going through, he gave passwords to everything, extremely cooperative, but happening at the same time. Uh, this case started getting national media attention very quickly, and sometimes that just happens in your cases for a variety of reasons, and that can be a different dynamic we’re dealing with. In addition, because her dad was a cop, he was also president of the Statewide Robbery Association. So he had a vast network of friends, and about a hundred off duty cops showed up with ATVs, horses, motorcycles, and they wanted to come help search for Christie. So at one point we had almost 400 searchers out in that vast rural area, that farmland. I mean, so all this was going on. As we started getting more video, we started seeing the actions that Mario was having with Christie, which included a lot of kind of flirtish, flirtatious grabbing and touching. Um, so he became definitely more of a suspect than Danny, but we stayed on both of them. Uh, we interviewed, uh, Mario.
He kind of gave us the same statement. He was rather aggressive, shut down. He was, he was, he left his car voluntarily. He brought the car that he took to the casino. He left with us at the sheriff’s office on the day of the interview. He was more concerned about when he was getting his car than finding this girl. He made some very odd statements about, you know, not having sex with unknown strangers because they may have an STD. Interestingly enough, her dad being a cop said if you ever get attacked, scratch their eyes and tell them that you have an STD. And Mario’s eyes were scratched and he made that odd statement.
So little things were coming into place that we were now focusing on more on Mario. Um, as the time went on, we finally found a hair, our CSI team found a hair wrapped on the passenger door handle. And that, that was important to us because that hair was wrapped in there really tight. That car had been driven, we know, about two to 300 miles. Uh, we know it had been washed. You can smell the shampoo inside the car. The car was thoroughly cleaned. We also found a hair on the back passenger, uh, seat, and we also found a hair in the trunk. So at that point, we submitted those hairs to our Department of Justice’s Crime Lab. In about two weeks, those hairs came back and confirmed that they were actually Christie Wilson’s. So we arrested Mario for a no body homicide. Now we had never done a no body homicide. We reached out to several agencies in our area that had, uh, only one had done one successfully. And so it wasn’t in 2005, no body homicide cases were not as prevalent as they are now. Obviously technology has advanced with DNA and so forth, but we’re dealing with, number one, very limited. evidence. We had those three pieces of hair, we had scratches on Mario’s face, and that’s essentially all we really, really had. Uh, we can, we, so we went through the initial preliminary hearing. He was held on that no body homicide. We continued to do the investigation. We called the car an archaeological dig, because that’s exactly what it was. DOJ went back and looked at the backseat again, and we found a little bit of blood. That blood was definitely Mario’s, but the numbers were really low to be able to say whether it was Christie or not. So it wasn’t compelling, but it started to move the needle in the right direction. As we continue the case, Mario really wanted a speedy trial. Typically in California, homicide cases from the time of arrest, the trial is anywhere between three to four years. We ended up going to trial within 18 months from the time she went missing on a no body homicide case. We continued to search for her. The media coverage was intense. And even with all the media coverage, we never had any reports that someone had seen Christie.
There was not even any sightings or nothing like that, which helped in our case, of course, right? Right before trial, about a month before trial, we asked DOJ to go back and test the control swabs. So in 2005, they would swab the surface for DNA, but they would also do a control swab just a few inches away. And the control swab was never tested, but the initial swab was always tested. They tested the door handle, the backseat, thinking maybe Christie struggled to get out of that car. There was no DNA on the door handle, but we had to test the control swab. And a month before trial, we finally got Christie’s full DNA. It was a sole source DNA. It was her touch DNA. So we, our, our theory was corrected that she was probably back there fighting at some point after he knocks her out of the casino to get out of that car. So Mario was convicted after three months of trial. We had about a thousand pieces of evidence. We had 200 witnesses, three months, he was convicted on the no body homicide. Uh, Mario had, uh, raped, kidnapped and raped his girlfriend in 1979. Uh, and fortunately in 1979, that was dropped to a battery and he got misdemeanor, uh, probation for that. However, because of the laws that the way they were back in 07, when we finally got sentenced, we were able to bring those charges forward and use them as a prior. So that victim got justice as well. And Mario got 59 years. Now the family at that point, uh, did not have closure. They had a resolution. They held the person responsible, uh, for killing Christie, but they didn’t have her body. And so, um, we spent the next 15 years, uh, looking for Christie. Uh, we went down mine shafts, uh, we dove lakes. We went back and looked at areas that were once cleared by dogs. Um, there were many of those where large acres, you know, people called them vultures or smells and the sergeant would put out a cadaver dog. The dog would come back with no, giving no indication. So he would clear it. So we tried to go back to some of those, but there was a lot of ’em and we ended up empty handed. Um, in 2019, we, uh, went back and interviewed Mario’s wife and sons, which they had never been interviewed. They hired an attorney at the beginning of this case and they never allowed, uh, law enforcement to talk to them. We went back and talked to them. Um, they now believe that dad is guilty. Uh, obviously this is now 15 years or 14 years later and one of the older sons, I walked him through the days after Mario left the casino all the way through the time that we first contacted Mario. And there was a few times where Mario was by himself on the property and those were the times I was really interested. Did he bury her on the property? We had done tons of searches. The son remembers one particular afternoon where, um, he had a playoff soccer game. This family was so big into soccer, part of their five acres, they had, uh, leveled it into a regulation soccer field. And so they went to every soccer game, mom and dad. This one afternoon, playoff game is going to happen. And the son goes and tells dad, dad, it’s time to leave. And his dad looks at him with a crazed look and a sweaty face and he cusses at him, which he never did and says, I’m not going to your effing game. And the son thought that was odd. He says, I don’t think that has anything to do with Christie Wilson. So what I did at that point is, uh, I took the son and they no longer lived on the property. The property has been owned by a new family for many, many years. So and I’d already met that family, built a relationship with them.
I took the son up to the property, had him show us the area. Where dad was working on the tractor is a pretty large area. So at that point I convinced my boss to, um, hire a ground penetrating radar company. and uh, an excavator. So we went back, uh, we did four days of scanning the property, which was really challenging. Scanning a property of five acres, uh, took about 11 to 12 hour days. And it’s a very slow methodical process. And what the GPR does, all it really tells you is, as it’s moving along the ground, it tells you whether there’s an anomaly in the ground or not. And that could be an anomaly, could be anything, could be a boulder. It could be a disturbance in the soil where there was a tree there before. It could be a leak from a pipe. And so we found 11 anomalies on the property. On the last day, we started digging those anomalies. And when we got to hole number three, again, there were 11, we got to hole number three, we found a bone. Uh, we brought up a, um, anthropologist, forensic anthropologist. She confirmed it was a human bone. Um, let me back up a second. Over the years, all the searches we did, We never told the family, um, the searches that we were doing. We would tell them afterwards and they knew that we were very upfront with them.
We didn’t want to give them false hope each time we did the searches. And so because we were searching at Mario’s property, we were concerned the media was going to find out that law enforcement was back after 15 years. The property had been searched thoroughly back in 05 with cadaver dogs and with searchers with no results. Um, so we started excavating the, the soil. Um, there was no indication of who it was. There was no clothing. There was no purse. There was nothing. After 15 years, all we have is bones, but the anthropologist confirmed that the bones were that of somewhere between a 25 to a 30 year old, Christie was 27. Uh, and there was probably a white female. So me and my partner, um, decided that we were going to take off at that moment. Uh, we left the, the rest of the team there to finish, uh, doing the excavation. And we wanted to get to Christie’s family immediately for the concern that the media would find it, find out that law enforcement had found human remains on the suspect’s property. Now, over the years, uh, Christie’s family had moved to Scottsdale, Arizona for work. Her dad had retired from law enforcement, but mom was still working. And so, uh, we got on a plane, uh, that afternoon. We did not tell the family that we were coming, but we got to Scottsdale 1130 at night. They lived in a gated community, so it’s kind of hard to get in. We finally got there. We knocked on their door at 1145. They didn’t know we were coming. And, uh, the minute they opened the door, they, they knew right away. And our message was that we found human remains. We didn’t know if it was Christie. And, uh, it was, it was, it was emotional for everyone, including ourselves, after looking for this girl for 15 years, and, um, we left them with that at 3am that it was, it was white female, um, same age range.
And the following morning we did get confirmation it was Christie through dental records. And, And, from there we were finally able to give the family, uh, um, what they needed to move to the next chapter and a phenomenal family. Uh, she had an older sister. We’ve stayed in contact. In fact, I teach with, uh, Christie’s mom, Debbie Boyd.
She gives back to law enforcement by teaching with me in a homicide class.
Dennis Nayor: Wow. Amazing. Just everything from start to finish so clear and how you described it and the dedication and the focus and really seems like every, yourself and all your colleagues put themselves in the position as if it was part of their family. And my question is, what kept you motivated in all those years?
And with all those obstacles, what kept you so focused?
Nuno Tavares: It’s a good question because it was not easy. In fact, it was challenging. So, uh, after finding, uh, Christie in the case, moving on, um, I went directly into work cold case homicides. I went to a new unit. Uh, my partner actually went to a new unit himself. We decided that we were going to keep the case with us. And I had this box, actually, that box was on my desk until the day I retired a year and a half ago. And in this box, I had, you know, leads that we wanted to go back to, but I had this, this article from the Sacramento Bee where, uh, Christie’s dad was interviewed and he said, we cannot put. This to rest until we put Christie to rest. And I had that article, I had that quote from dad posted in every time I moved units, I promoted a few years later, I brought it to my new office and the thought that there’s a family that doesn’t know where their child is. You know, is, is just gut wrenching. My daughter was born the same year. I had a child.
She was born in 05, the year that Christine went missing. And that was kind of the, the drive is to bring this, this girl home to mom and dad. Um, and of course having the relationship with them, with the victim’s family over the years. And seeing the pain that they were going through, it was, it was, it was huge and it was a hold that they had and, and, and that kept us motivated, uh, to bring her home. And, uh, but, but it’s not, it wasn’t without challenges because of the other cases and the other work that we had, uh, you know, throughout the years
Dennis Nayor: and just staying with something for such an important reason. And I’m sure that there’s no amount of expression that the family can do to convey. How important it was that you didn’t just say, well, we’ve done our best.
Nuno Tavares: and that’s, uh, you know, That’s one thing that, uh, Christie’s parents both talk about. They now do a great job supporting other victims across the country. Uh, other victims families who are in the same situation that they were. And, um, they, they, that’s their message is, is don’t give up. And, you know, a lot of times these families are frustrated with law enforcement because law enforcement moves on. And I, I understand it. There were times where there was, it’d be six, eight months, sometimes a year where we wouldn’t touch the case. And, uh, you’d have to really find that drive to go back to that. And again, that drive was, was their family. They were advocates for, for Christie the whole way through. And, um, I found my, my, my strength
Dennis Nayor: Wow. Um, this is a story that I actually don’t even want to go on to any other different topics because it’s so important, but just, I think this is the type of image that people should see of law enforcement, because I feel this really reflects that dedication and drive to justice and looking after victims and, and trying to do everything they can to bring closure.
Um, so actually the next question is kind of related because as an investigator, you actually teach and you’re a LEEDA instructor, you teach an interview and interrogation course and you teach one that’s newer and more cutting edge. And I was hoping you can talk a little bit about what you, what that is.
Nuno Tavares: Sure, so maybe I’ll give you a little, a little bit of a background on that. So, in 2006, I went through the, we have a 80 hour course, and it’s a basic detective school. It’s an ADR course, and within those 80 hours, there’s little chunks of, you know, search warrants and media and interview interrogation. And so we have another one.
It’s ADR courses for new homicide detectives. So anyone that’s promoted into homicide, they go through the ADR course. It’s an advanced course, but it’s just for homicide. And so, uh, when I went through, I was asked by one of the instructors, if I wanted to coach the interview sections. So I really started teaching, or excuse me, coaching.
We were teaching the Reid Technique. Um, I would use the Reid Technique. Many of us were trained that way. It’s been around since the 60s, um, and so over the years, I became a LEEDA instructor for the Reid Technique in both homicide and in the basic detective schools. And, um, in the homicide class, that’s the one where I teach, I teach two sections, working with homicide victims families, and that’s where I work with Christie’s mom. And basically what I do there is I, I, I set up, I do a 30, 40 minute introduction to the case. I talk about the journey and then mom comes up and talks about the same journey, but from a victim’s family perspective and the challenges and the times where they were frustrated with us. And there’s a lot of lessons learned. Uh, in that, in that block, which I, that’s my number one mission is to deliver my lessons, uh, that I didn’t probably learn from sometimes, but definitely those lessons learned, uh, and then I also teach the interview portion. So back to the new interview, it’s called science based interviewing, I’ll refer to it as SBI, and science based interviewing came as a result. In the United States came as a result of in 2009, the Obama administration looked at what was happening in the black sites all over the world, the Guantanamo Bays and looking at the intelligence that was coming from there. And they did a huge investigation of that and basically found that there was no real actionable intelligence coming from those communities.
And so the Obama administration asked the FBI to, and the CIA to look at what was working around the world because The Brits, the Australians, New Zealand, Chinese, they were getting information, actionable information. So what they learned, what we learned, the United States is we learned that the other countries were doing interview techniques that were science based.
And what that means is the interviews that we do are looked at either live or, or from video by psychologists. And these are psychologists that are in the field of human psychology, forensic human psychology. And they’ll look at an interview and they break that up into 15 minute sections. And they look at, let’s say for a 15 minute, they code the interview. They look at the behavior that the, that the detective did. I’ll just refer to her as the interviewer. Look at the behavior of the interviewer did that resulted in the subject giving information up. So we call that YIELD. Evidence, facts, information. They’re basically giving actionable stuff. And then they look at the behavior that the interviewer did that shut that person down. And they do that every 15 minutes. And they’ve done it over thousands of hours. And what they do, they look at that data set. And then they validate it again through a different set of researchers and they can say now, okay, this behavior like good rapport, for example, establishing good rapport results in yield, results in information, but when we’re confrontational, we do minimization. We don’t get that yield. And so they flush out what works and what doesn’t work. And so the Department of Defense decided this is where we’re going with. And so all of our CIA teams were trained in, um, in science based interviewing. Uh, at the time the FBI said, well, hang on. Uh, the CIA community doesn’t have to do Miranda.
They don’t have to deal with any of the legal issues. So let’s build a curriculum for civilian law enforcement in the United States where we can apply this. And again, do a better job at getting interviews or getting information. Um, so they’ve built a curriculum. They divide, they devised a group called the HIG, which it stands for the high value detainee group. And under it falls under DOD and it’s got FBI, CIA, um, ATF. It’s got all the large, um, alphabet soup, if you will. And so they have at Quantico, they have a training facility. The full SBI training is about 450 hours. Uh, I’ve done close to 200 and some change. And so what they did is they came out, California Post is very interested and, uh, agencies in New York and in Florida were interested in teaching SBI.
So they devised a 40 hour curriculum, uh, because I was the lead instructor for the Reid Technique, I I volunteered to be fully trained in science based interviewing, um, and so what was funny, let me, let me mention this really quick, cause I think it’s important for the viewers to know this. I did Reid, I trained Reid, Reid worked. Sometimes it worked too well and false confessions came along, right? Because of the minimization that we do. But when I looked at the science based curriculum and I really started getting into the research, I looked back at my interviews and I thought, you know, I’ve done this. I’ve connected with the subject that I’m interviewing. I’ve tried to understand them as a person. I’ve tried to show some empathy by not judging them, but trying to understand them, how they like to be, who they are in front of us. And so I tell this to the students when I teach our 40 hour science based interview class. Is that this is some of the terminology is new, but what we’re teaching you to do is to be human in that interview room, something that you’ve already done in your career and other interviews. So it’s not completely, completely new. And I’ll tell you, the scientists will tell you, in fact, they’ll say, um, you know, we’re scientists. If the science showed that waterboarding works, Well then, hell, let’s start waterboarding people. But the science shows that the enhanced interrogation techniques simply do not work and they do not give us the yield that we’re looking for. Another piece to science based interview is what we call the cognitive interview. And the cognitive interview has been taught for many years. It was created by Dr. Fisherman Geiselman back in the 70s. taught across the country, but we’re taught to do the cognitive interview now, even with suspects, because sometimes what we may think is someone that’s lying is simply, simply them trying to retrieve memory. And so trying to navigate that. Um, and then at the very end of all this, there’s an evidence plan that we, we worked through an evidence plan. How are we going to disclose our evidence? And we do so in an ethical way that allows the suspect to either lie, continue lying, or to present it in a way that maybe there’s a memory cue, you know, for example, we have video surveillance, you left at 3 a. m. and you’re telling me you left the bar at 9 a. m. Well, the way I would, I would present that was earlier, you mentioned you left the bar at 9 a. m. On the other hand, I have video surveillance of you leaving the bar at 3, at 3 a. m. Can you help me understand that? And again, if they want to lie, we can work with lies.
Lies do convict. Right? Especially if you have the evidence, lies do convict, and it’s their choice whether they lie or tell the truth, but either way, the interview can absolutely work with that. So at the end of the day, it’s a dialogue. It’s understanding human psychology. It’s accepting them as a person and doing an
Dennis Nayor: lends itself very well to what you do and what you need to do or what every sworn member needs to do when they want to try to get justice and closure. And it’s to have the best tools possible. And this seems like it’s definitely one of them.
Nuno Tavares: Absolutely. And SBI training is starting to roll, I think, in Georgia. They’re starting to go that way as well. And so I imagine, you know, this is a big shift, right? Reid’s been around for 67 years. And so as it, as the curriculum goes throughout the country and, and, and starts to be, uh, the officers start to be trained, they start to see more examples of that. It’s going to be 10, 15 years, but I think, you know, especially new detectives coming in. In California, we do not train Reid at all anymore.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, and you said we were talking offline that you, it’s in New York already, where I’m from,
and um, and when you look at the, the state of policing where everything you’re doing, you really want to make sure that it’s procedurally just and that we’re continually building trust and legitimacy in what we do, it seems like this is a great pathway toward that.
Nuno Tavares: Absolutely. And you mentioned, you know, the trust part. It’s so important. And when people feel like we’re not being truthful, relying, we lose that credibility. It’s an uphill battle. And that starts with our patrol officers on the street, not just in the interview rooms, right? It’s, it’s being honest with people.
It’s a big part of SBI is being honest in our interviews. If you can’t tell them something, tell them you can’t tell them. And, and rather than try to, uh, be deceitful around it, at the end of the day, it does not good, it doesn’t do any good in any relationship, whether it’s in the interview room, in your personal
Dennis Nayor: You know, um, completely agree. And just, you know, kind of a little bit of a segue, you’re obviously have so much experience from your 27 years of law enforcement. You teach this now to other sworn members who can continue to uphold the mission and, and, and, you know. You know, get justice
and closure. You also teach for the University of San Diego’s Law Enforcement and Public Safety Leadership master’s program.
You have a lot on your plate. You had it when you were active, you’re retired. You’re still have act, you have a lot. What is it that motivates you to teach for that program? What do you like most about it? And how do you stay committed as a core member of the faculty?
Nuno Tavares: So, uh, it’s an easy answer. It, it sounds cliche, but it’s so true. It’s our students. Um, you know, when I got into leadership, uh, one of the things that I really wanted to do was mentor, continuing mentor. I enjoy mentoring. I enjoy watching other people succeed, um, and, and achieving whatever goal that they want. And what’s great about our students at USD is they show up at our door. Already driven. They want to learn. And I want to be part of that. I wanted to be part of that. Uh, when I was working, it was not easy. Uh, I was on the road a lot because of the training. Actually, I’m still on the road quite a bit, uh, with the work I’m doing now. And so, you know, I, I work all day, 10 hour days. We’re on four 10s and come home in the evening, eat dinner and head to my office and, and. You know, I was pretty tired at that point. When you log on and you start reading discussion board posts, all of a sudden you become driven, you’re seeing the students, you’re seeing, you can, as you read the posts, you can see how happy they are, uh, being challenged by the material, the aha moments that happen, that’s what really keeps me driven.
And I’ll tell you, right. I’m teaching public safety law, just like you are Dennis right now. And, uh, we’re in week seven. I. Every week I have learned something new about the technology, how it’s used, the, the potential of technology, those privacy rights that we talk about. And so I’ve always enjoyed being a student. And so I’m learning right along with our students, uh, from the material that we have, cause it’s so fresh. And in every, every class we teach, I might teach this class a couple of times over a few years, but it’s fresh. It’s, um, it’s connected, it’s relevant. And so I enjoyed being a student of that as
Dennis Nayor: one of the things I said is what do you miss most, you know, when everybody, when people retire and it happens, there is a transition. And one of the things you said you miss most, which I agree with, you miss the people always. But it seems to me that this role and your teaching role of SBI, um, Keeps you very, very well connected.
Nuno Tavares: You know, it’s funny, um, when I decided to retire, uh, I went into my elected DA and he was a friend of mine at another county before he came to Placer and we talked for a little bit and he said, I can tell you, you have a reservation about retiring and I said, well, I, I’m really connected with my, my colleagues and, and just the profession itself for, you know, 27 years of doing it. And he said, no, no, listen, here’s what you need to think about. You’re leaving the gun and badge, if you will, but transforming into this, uh, educational or continuing with an educational role, you’re still connected. You’re giving back to law enforcement in another way. And that to me was, I knew it, but hearing that. It made all the sense, and being able to be, you know, I travel all over the country, uh, teaching SBI, but also, uh, I teach, I speak at many conferences, I teach for the International Homicide Investigators Association, and sometimes I take Christie’s mom with me, and we speak about this case, we speak about cold cases, we speak about no body homicide cases, And just pulling it all together, your career, uh, your experiences, your lessons learned. And, uh, that made that easy to retire because I’m still involved in law enforcement community. And let me tell you what the big bonus is. When I’m teaching a class, whether it’s a conference or whether it’s in a classroom, is on one of the breaks when somebody comes up and says, I was one of your students at USD and he’s wearing a USD shirt.
I love meeting our students in person. Again, I, it’s my favorite thing. You know, I’m a people person and meeting those folks in person is just takes it, it adds gravity to the top of the
Dennis Nayor: it’s all really about creating meaning, and it seems you have a tremendous amount of meaning in what you do. And my last question to close out is from a leadership person. point of view. You’re clearly a leader. What is it philosophy wise that stands out to you that leaders should know?
And or is there any book that you like to reflect on for leadership?
Nuno Tavares: Sure. So when I was going through my master’s program and learning about leadership and so forth. Um, I had a little aha moment was, you know, you’re sitting in class and you’re thinking back to leaders that you followed, um, people that really resonated with me, those leaders that just stuck with me all the way to, to the end.
And it was, I adapted to that. It was the transformational leadership, right? Um, it’s person centered. I’m a people
Madi: thank you for taking the time to meet the law enforcement heroes and leaders who are part of the MS LEPSL family. You can find more episodes of Blue Leadership on Facebook and YouTube. If you would like to learn more about the LEPSL program, visit us at criminaljustice.sandiego.edu.