In this episode, Captain Adam Oberdorfer of the Santa Clara County, CA Sheriff’s Department talks about his passion for teaching and training law enforcement officers and the importance of his role in overseeing academy and in-service level training. The episode provides meaningful perspectives on key training programs like Below 100, Blue Courage, and fair and impartial policing as some of the most critical courses for LEOs to attend. The Captain highlights the importance of continuous learning, scenario-based training, and the readiness to adapt to future challenges in law enforcement.
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Transcript
Madi: Hi everyone, and welcome to episode 34 of Blue Leadership with your host Dennis Nayer. Dennis is a 26 year law enforcement veteran and retired chief from the state of New York. He’s also a proud graduate of the 240th session of the FBI National Academy and the 61st session of the FBI Lead A Command Institute.
The Blue Leadership Video Podcast is brought to you by the nationally ranked Master of Science in Law Enforcement and Public Safety Leadership Program at the University of San Diego. You can learn more about the LEPSL program at criminaljustice.sandiego.edu. With that, I’ll kick things over to your host to introduce our featured guest.
Dennis Nayor: So here we are, episode 34. Today’s guest is Captain Adam Oberdorfer of the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office in Santa Clara, California. Um, the captain has over 21 years in law enforcement experience. Um, he has done a lot of things. He’s been a, , trainer, a teacher, a facilitator. He’s a graduate of The SLI, Sherman Block Leadership Institute, California Post Command College, lots of other things.
But without further ado, Captain, thank you for being here today.
Captain Oberdorfer: Thank you for having me, Chief. I appreciate it.
Dennis Nayor: Absolutely. And one of our themes today is really going to be about teaching and training and a lot of things related to that. And can you just talk a little bit for the viewers and listeners, you completed the California Post Command College, and you’re also a graduate of I would be remiss if I didn’t say of LEPSL, Law Enforcement and Public Safety Leadership Master’s Degree Program at the University of San Diego.
Can you talk about the California Command Post College and how LEPSL may have been a valued asset for that?
Captain Oberdorfer: Yeah, of course. So, you know, I, I graduated from LEPSL in, in August of 2022. Um, and LEPSL was a phenomenal experience, um, amazing professors, great networking, um, you know, had some amazing colleagues as, as students that I was able to learn from. And I always, Command College was always on my list, but I always kind of anticipated going before I completed my Master’s, um, if nothing else, for the transfer credit.
Um, but it just didn’t work out that way for me with COVID. Um, so after I, I graduated from, from LEPSL, I actually had a conversation with Dr. Fritsvold and, and asked him about post command college. I knew he was, um, involved and had some insight knowledge and, um, he really underscored the importance of the program and what it offered, um, in addition to, to LEPSL, um, the post command college program has kind of a rigorous interview process to get involved and.
A lot of the things that we talked about in LEPSL, particularly some of the trends, technology, transparency, were all areas that really did help with that interview process and got me into Class 71 of the Post Command College, which was a fabulous experience. You know, the Post Command College is a very different, um, Leadership program than maybe your traditional law enforcement, uh, command school.
And it’s completely taught by professors and non non law enforcement academics, um, which gives you a very different perspective on, um, just leading. Uh, the program focuses on futuring and foresight, um, you know, looking ahead 10 years into the future, opposed to, um, constantly dealing with the challenges of today.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, that’s great. I think, you know, for law enforcement leaders, you have to constantly be looking forward. And we discussed offline about if you could have done this in 2010, How do you respond to a pandemic or something like that? You would have been much better suited as an agency leader to respond to such a thing when it occurs.
So I think that’s a tremendous asset to go to a training like that.
Captain Oberdorfer: It was, you know, I mean, like anything else, a lot of times, or I think a lot of these classes come down to, to your students, right? Um, and I think that’s one of the things that made LEPSL fantastic. It’s one of the things that made Command College a great experience, is you learn more from, from your colleagues in the class sometimes.
Um, and that networking is, is so important. But having the opportunity to learn from professors from, you know, the University of Arizona and the University of Houston and people who cost a lot of money to, to teach corporate classes coming in, um, teaching, teaching the law enforcement because that’s a industry they want to see thrive, um, was phenomenal.
Dennis Nayor: That’s great. And you know, not only are you a student, but you’re also a teacher and someone who enjoys imparting that knowledge to others. And some people it’s, it’s a gift that or a calling that they enjoy in addition to their law enforcement duties. Can you just talk a little bit about. Why that’s such a passion for you?
Captain Oberdorfer: So, you know, teaching and law enforcement and, um, and training others has, has been a passion of mine for a long time. Um, you know, I think it, it started in, in different ways. Um, but a lot of it comes down to a, to an incident back before I, I started with the Sheriff’s office. I was, I was working in private security at the time, um, in Santa Cruz.
Um, I never really had a desire to, to be a security officer, but I found myself working at the Santa Cruz beach boardwalk, which was a phenomenal experience to get some experience. Um, there was a lot of gang issues and other things down there. Um, you know, one evening. Two, two mentors of mine who both worked for the Santa Cruz Police Department made a, a ped stop or a vehicle stop on a, um, subject playing loud music in his car who happened to be an armed parolee, um, he ended up shooting, uh, Officer John Pursley.
Um, who, who fortunately survived, but watching that incident as, you know, a young man, um, before coming into this career, definitely changed my perspective on, on officer safety and teaching others and being prepared. Um, and that really did drive me towards becoming a field training officer early in my career here at the Sheriff’s Office.
Um, I was a field training officer for about five years before promoting, um, and then it did, it continued to push me in different directions within my career here, besides being a patrol supervisor and some of the other assignments that I’ve had. The majority of my career has been in training. I ran our field training program for about five and a half years, um, and then for the last about four, I’ve been the captain of our training and professional development division.
Um, you know, which includes all those types of programs, but also our basic police academy and our custody academy, um, and, and many of the, the leadership programs that our office provides to our staff. So I find training others extremely rewarding, but also just such a important element of contemporary law enforcement.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah. And at the recruit level, it’s critical for establishing that correct platform and foundation for them to be able to succeed, for them to stay safe, to keep their partner safe and their community safe. And without the proper foundation at the beginning, it won’t happen. And then, um, obviously through the career there, the type of training changes.
And I’m going to cover that in a little bit, but I wanted to ask you what are Whether you’re at the recruit level or in service level, what are the courses you enjoy teaching the most?
Captain Oberdorfer: I think early on in my career, I thrived on officer safety and policy and procedure, legal type concept classes, you know. This is one of those professions where you have to be a scholar, and I think the more adept both senior and new deputies are at policy and procedure and tactics, the safer they’ll be, the better profession they’ll have, the more open they’ll be to both personal and professional growth.
So, I really thrived on teaching those, you know, basic patrol. Concept classes and, uh, you know, legal and procedure type, type courses. And as I, I kind of matured within my career, I really, I found, I found several courses, but I found these adaptive change courses. One of them was, was Blue Courage and the other ones below 100 that I really started enjoying teaching and seeing the positive.
Culture change that those could, could bring to an organization. Little did I know, I mean, uh, shortly after starting to teach those courses, I, I got accepted into the post Sherman block leadership program. And I realized that, that both of those programs are such classic adaptive leadership, culture change type, um, courses, which has really been where my passion has been for probably the last, you know, 10 or plus, 10 plus years.
Dennis Nayor: And just for the listeners and viewers, when they say adaptive leadership, what, succinctly, what is that basically encapsulating?
Captain Oberdorfer: Yeah. So, I mean, there was a couple of different. Um, I guess definitions, but the way I would just put it in, in, in simple terms is, is changing culture through, um, some type of shift, whether that be a mindset, mindset shift about, um, you know, officer safety in the case of Blue Courage, or, um, Below 100, or in the case of, you know, Blue Courage, shifting the culture around the nobility of policing, um, what our job is, um, and, and how to be more resilient.
Um, it’s. You know, it’s those things, there’s that old saying that, you know, cops hate two things and that’s what they have and change. And, you know, that’s really, you know, what we’re talking about in the case of, you know, Blow 100, you know, looking back when I started, we didn’t wear seatbelts and now we do.
Um, and that happened because we changed policies, we changed practices, but at the end of the day, we changed culture.
Dennis Nayor: And you know, when you’re below 100, for the listeners, obviously it’s trying to reduce law enforcement fatalities. to get below 100. And when was the last time that it actually ever got below 100?
Captain Oberdorfer: Off the top of my head, I think it was in the, um, in the fifties. Um, you know, you know, Below 100 is a. It was a powerful program for me. I went through it shortly after having, um, my, my first kid and it, you know, definitely changed my perspective on, on several things. Um, you know, for, for those that haven’t heard about it, it’s a, it’s a short course.
It’s about a four hour course. That’s really driven by personal stories and videos. Um, it’s an emotional course to, to teach. Um, because you’re reliving those stories from, from others and, um, it was a course that was, you know, built from the ground up organically by law enforcement. It was created at, um, ILEEDA, which is the International Law Enforcement Educators, um, Conference.
And it’s, it’s simple. It’s, it’s focusing on those areas that are within our control. We don’t get to control the parolee with the gun, but we do get to control the fact that we wear our seatbelts, that we wear our vest, that we use a reasonable speed. Um, right. That’s not to say we’re not going to drive fast when our partner needs help, but, uh, we’re not driving twice the speed limit to go to a cold call.
Um, and then the philosophy of win, which is, you know, what’s important now, which I could go on forever, but I think that could drive so many of our, of our decisions that we’re making on a daily basis and then complacency kills. And, you know, it, it, it focuses on, unfortunately, if you look at ODMP or any of the statistics websites out there.
Every year we lose more officers to things like vehicle crashes and, um, that we do to, to firearms. Um, it’s changing the culture around those areas, um, that, that are within our control.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, and I think that’s amazing, great risk management. And I’ve been through the below 100s and they’re definitely, they’re very moving because, you know, you see a life that’s gone because of a speed that was way too fast for the conditions and for a call that didn’t necessarily require it or a lack of a seatbelt or a lack of body armor.
And, and I agree all those things. What’s important now, it. It’s such a type of training that can truly make a difference between life and death. So I don’t see how that shouldn’t be a mandatory training for every law enforcement officer to go through.
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely. So we’ve, we’ve incorporated into our field training program. Um, and that’s kind of the way that, you know, I ran the field training program at the time and it’s still part of our, um, our pre, pre FTO training. Um, but it goes further than that, right? It’s organizations also embracing those tenets as part of policy and part of culture, right?
So, you know, in California, when I went to the police academy, we didn’t have to wear seatbelts to pass EVOC. Now you do. Um, and if you don’t wear your seatbelt during EVOC, you will fail the academy. Um, and you know, I think those types of things just reinforce those tenets from the very beginning.
Dennis Nayor: And just think also from a practical point, if you’re going through an EVOC course and you’re trying to go through a serpentine or pursuit course and you don’t have your seat belt on, you’re moving all over the place. It should be a good reminder for anyone who thinks that, you know, they’re going to drive a car fast and stay in. Right behind the steering wheel without a seatbelt. That’s not going to happen.
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely. Well, you know, there’s the old, uh, you know, I’ve heard it said a few different ways, but at the end of the day, we might be exempt from the law. We’re not exempt from physics, right? And, um, You know, I think for, for police officers, it’s important to hear that and hear it first, firsthand from, from people who have experienced it.
Dennis Nayor: 100%. And, you know, one of the other courses you talked about, so that’s to blow 100, you talked about blue courage and I’ve had the fortune of going through that as well. And, um, can you please share a little bit with the, you know, when we look at officer wellness as being such a critical area of need to be covered consistently and continually in law enforcement, Can you talk a little bit about what blue courage is?
Captain Oberdorfer: Yeah. So, so Blue Courage, um, you know, to me is one of, one of the, the core courses we, we have it in both our, our custody and enforcement academies, um, and we’ve done an in service for, for some of our, um, our bureaus. At the core of it, it’s, it’s focusing on the nobility and resilience of, It’s a reminder of why you joined and a reminder of, you know, why we keep showing up every day.
Um, you know, for me, I went through it probably about 12 years into my career. Um, and it really was like, I came out of it feeling refreshed. And because over time you feel, you start feeling like every call for service that you go to. doesn’t have an impact and it absolutely does. So Courageous Heart really focuses on the guardian.
You know, focus of, of the heart and the mind of the guardian. That’s in fact, the key words within Blue Courage. Um, there’s, there’s a great book. It’s, it ties back a lot to Stephen Covey’s, um, material with seven habits, um, really focuses on personal and professional growth. Um, as you said, wellness, particularly around the areas of, um, sleep, um, incorporates heart math, um, which is a fabulous program.
And then. I think it really does all tie back to, to how do you have a happy and content career and stay resilient for for 30 years and a job that’s tremendously challenging.
Dennis Nayor: Really well stated, and you know, you looked at, you’re talking below 100 complacency kills. And in terms of just your overall emotional well being, so does cynicism. And in a different way, though, and you look at officers, everyone’s goal is, yeah, it’s a countdown until they can retire. But if they get there, and they’re broken and mentally not well, and they’re, Miserable to be around.
I mean, then what have they accomplished? And, and if you can bring that to light so they can at least start seeing those patterns and start doing things to try to counter them and infusing some wellness, then you’re doing a great service.
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely. I think, you know, more than anything, Blue Courage gave me some tools as a supervisor to also work with my team. It’s tremendously heartbreaking when, you know, a whole team responds to a fatality accident or to, um, some of these incidents and you feel helpless, right? Because we all, we all came into law enforcement to try to help others and the bottom line is in many of the incidents that we respond to, there’s nothing we can do to change the outcome of that event.
but there are tools and ways to, to find something positive about that. And, um, you know, to reinforce that by going out there and enforcing, speeding to go out there and work a stop sign potentially could change the outcome on a different event. Um, and have those conversations, particularly with, with your newer deputies.
Um, I think was, you know, helped me a lot in my own resilience, but also helped me. lead a team more effectively.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, truly. I mean, that really gives meaning to the mission and, and remind the officers of how important it is to, to do the job to prevent those deaths and tragic incidents. And The sad part about law enforcement is that the officers respond day in and day out and they absorb these things. And, you know, the old culture was like, you know, you know, bite your upper lip and just keep moving forward.
And, and all the research has shown that unprocessed trauma doesn’t just go away and being conscious of it and knowing that the toll it’s taking, I think that’s another value add to focusing on the wellness
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely. You know, I think it also ties back to, to the mission. And as leaders, we have an obligation to remind our staff all the time of what our mission is and you know, whatever the, the call for service or, or the today brings, right. If it’s a, if it’s a, if it’s a protest, you know, being able to refocus it, that our job is to go out there and protect the first amendment rights of, of everybody.
Um, and to focus back on some of those tenants of democracy. That’s what Blue Courage to me is all about.
Dennis Nayor: So I’m going to ask you, Captain, what are the courses you enjoy teaching the most? And I think we, we probably have a pretty good clue, the Below 100, the Blue Courage, um, and this is at the in service level, I should say. Not just enjoy teaching the most, but also do you think it has the most value? Um, and it could be just those, or it could be additional in, in your thoughts.
Captain Oberdorfer: You know, I think those courses are, are definitely two that are close to my heart. Um, I enjoy teaching any, any leadership courses and we’ve been doing a bunch of sergeant leadership training recently, and just having those conversations with your first line supervisors and reminding them how much positive influence they have every day on, on deputies.
I think we all look back and we look at the chief, but in the reality, our, our supervisors, our sergeants, our first line. Leaders have so much influence on, on individuals. Um, so that’s really been my focus recently. And I find that, you know, incredibly rewarding.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, always, it’s the sergeant, and if you can get the sergeants to, you know, improve the esprit de corps in whatever capacity, those answering the calls will be better suited. And, and maybe if, if they have needs, their needs can be brought up to chain of command and get addressed. So a sergeant, I’ve always said is such a critical area.
And if they’re a key component of the leadership training, then I think that has tremendous value.
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely.
Dennis Nayor: And, you know, you talked, Captain, about leadership and, you know, we talk about perishable skills. And I think leadership is one of those concepts that It just always gets the person who’s attending that training thinking.
You know, how can they be a better leader? What can they learn from, you know, what can they do is self reflecting to see, cause we all have quirks. It’s just the nature of it. And if you can understand, you know, how you, a person can be just a better version of themselves, then they can be a better version.
of the leader that those below them need.
Captain Oberdorfer: No, absolutely. And I think, I think that’s an area that law enforcement as a whole is, is trying to find, you know, more, more leadership training and development opportunities, particularly as we see a gap in, in command staff retiring. Um, and people promoting earlier in their careers. Um, so that’s definitely an area that we’ve, we’ve looked at a lot, um, you know, developing more sergeant training, developing, you know, perhaps our own leadership development, um, institute, um, and really pushing out, um, you know, we have a lending library now at our office to try to get people to read, um, and really, you know, underscore the importance of both personal and professional growth, um, as leaders.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, that’s a real challenge. That’s, you know, we can go off on so many different paths here, but people getting promoted, maybe they’re not quite ready, but with the attrition in law enforcement, the difficulty in recruiting and retaining and people advancing. Maybe that they want to advance, but the skills that might be required might be a little bit lacking and that can be adjusted for to certain degrees with that leadership training.
So I think it’s definitely, that’s a good example of risk management and leadership. Not waiting for someone to get into a promotion before they get that training.
Captain Oberdorfer: No, absolutely. You know, there’s, there’s that old, uh, well, there’s a couple of courses out there, I think that are really interesting. And one of them is, you know, every officer is a leader and, um, and we’ve tried to embrace that, that philosophy here and, um, and add more leadership training. And, um, because at the end of the day, every police officer is a leader, whether they’re responding to a call for service, um, or they’re officially promoted.
Um, but I think we’ve You know, we focused on other things in the police academies for the last couple of, of decades rather than, um, than leadership and communication. And that’s an area that we’ve definitely, we’ve tried to grow. Um, cause every one of our officers, every one of our deputies has to be able to speak in public and has to be able to make leadership decisions.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah. Where, where do you think, you know, so looking at you, you went to that leadership school that really focuses on looking ahead five, 10 years into the future. Where do you see the profession going in terms of the wellness of officers and in terms of the safety with the below 100? If you had to project out, Where do you see it going?
What do you think every officer in every agency should be doing in addition to sending people to those schools that can help? Advanced safety, advanced officer wellness while they’re there and when they retire.
Captain Oberdorfer: You know, I think, I think we’re going to see a shift in, in educational requirements for policing, not just college education, but ongoing training. Um, at least here in California, in the last four or five years, we’ve, we’ve seen a huge increase in legislatively mandated training hours. Um, and frankly, the capacity hasn’t, hasn’t matched the mandates at this point.
Um, you know, to the, to the areas that you spoke of earlier with the challenges of recruiting and retention. Um, but if you think about it, you know, compared to fire or, um, the medical industry, law enforcement doesn’t train as much as a lot of other professions. Um, I think you’re going to see an increased demand on, on training hours, um, across the country, um, so that there’s more standardization. You know, in California, they’re, they pass legislation to require college degrees for, for police officers. I don’t know if that’s necessarily the solution. I went back and got my degree after working in policing for, for many years. Um, but I, I certainly see the advantage of upper education for supervisors and executives. Um, and I think you’re going to see a huge increase in Realistic scenario based training. Um, you know, that’s been, that’s been a big area that we’ve focused on with, um, focusing as many of our training topics as we can into scenario based stress inoculation training. So, you know, instead of sitting in a classroom and doing first aid and CPR now, we’re, you know, We’re doing scenario based first aid CPR in a sim house with simunition weapons and scenario.
And you know what? People come out of it with better application and knowledge compared to the classroom environment.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, and I like the word you used, inoculation, because make it that so when it gets to the real thing, they’ve been there in their brain before, so it’s not so foreign and their reactions are as automatic as they can be. I think that is critical. I’m glad you brought that up.
Captain Oberdorfer: No, absolutely. And that’s the whole goal is to, Um, put people in situations so that when it does happen, they’re not as, as shocked and they’re better prepared, better able to respond.
Dennis Nayor: completely agree. And, and I think you talk standards. I do believe there should be national standards in a lot of things, not just at the entry level, but at certain critical areas, whether it’s What the certain basic requirements are to be a police officer anywhere from a small town to a large city, and then also for a chief, and also for first, second, third line supervisors, because that way you know where there’s area, the areas of need are being met by the person in those roles.
And then hopefully the challenges we’re recruiting and retaining will, will start to dissipate so that you can detail officers away for those schools and that agencies will have the ability to be choosy and get people who are best suited because let’s face it, lots of people may want to be Maybe not so much anymore these days, but there are people that want to be a police officer that just, they may lack the, the suitability factors that are needed.
So, I think all of this marries together that we need to happen for the profession to evolve.
Captain Oberdorfer: No, absolutely. And I think the, uh, you know, kind of the, the theme of my command college, um, thesis was, was focused on, on just that in terms of, I kind of envisioned two paths for officers in the future and, you know, looking, looking way into the future where you, perhaps you have that entry level where you get hired by a police agency, you go to the academy and you have to, um, you know, work your way up, but also a different path where kind of more like a, the military path where you would be coming in as an officer and you would go through a, you know, a national school.
And then get hired by agencies because, you know, to your point, the, the standards across the country are just, um, too far apart.
Dennis Nayor: Agreed. And we all get reduced to the lowest common denominator of inefficiency or, um, bad policing or whatever you want to term it. And it’s sad that An agency can have the highest standards in terms of who they hire, how they show accountability and transparency, how they address issues, how they protect and serve their community.
But if thousands of miles away, another agency doesn’t have that and an officer does wrong, it labels everyone the same.
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely. And I think as, uh, social media and, uh, you know, the internet and everything else has shown up, we’ve really flattened as an industry. And the bottom line is, you know, each, each jurisdiction, let alone each state is so different in terms of their training and the hiring standards.
Dennis Nayor: Yeah, now let’s shift a little bit, but it’s a nice segue. One particular training that you’re familiar with and you teach, we didn’t discuss yet, fair and impartial policing. And that has just as much value as the ones that are below 100 and the blue courage. Can you just talk a little bit about that, please?
Captain Oberdorfer: Yeah, so I went through the Train the Trainer several years ago, and we did implement it into our organization. We still teach it in both the academy and in service. Um, you know, at the end of the day, it’s about procedural justice. You know, obviously we all have our biases, and the class really focuses on identifying those, but it also, it also really focuses on procedural justice and the concept of, you know, treating others the way, way you would want to be treated.
Um, my favorite thing about, about teaching that class is, is kind of twisting it around and looking at it from a leadership philosophy about, um, you know, I think, because as organizations, I think we preach all the time. We want procedural justice. We want you to treat the public well, but as organizations, do we treat our employees with that same procedural justice?
Um, and the example I always give is, you know, if you have a, a deputy who shows up 10 minutes late, you can handle that so many different ways. And the outcome may all be the same, but the process and the procedure has so much impact on how that deputy will look at the entire management team, probably for the rest of their career.
And similarly, I think the way we treat the public has the same exact, um, you know, outcomes. It’s whether you give the person the ticket or not is really irrelevant. It’s the process behind that, the explanation, um, and, you know, just being human and talking to the person.
Dennis Nayor: I fully agree. People will always remember how you make them feel, how you treat them, and the legitimacy of law enforcement is so critical. And if there, if an agency is perceived or the officers within it as unfair, biased in their actions, quota based, whatever, that same ticket will be seen in a much, much more negative light.
Then it would be in an agency that really values that fairness and impartial policing and procedural justice. Is that, is that a fair assessment?
Captain Oberdorfer: Absolutely.
And sometimes it just comes down to spending an extra, you know, 30 seconds explaining why you stopped the person, um, over and over again, watching body worn cameras and watching other incidents, it’s amazing how many officers say basically that’s none of your business and walk away,
Dennis Nayor: Yeah. Horrible.
Yeah, when it’s a, it’s a, it’s a legitimate question for someone stopped to ask and to be treated like that, all law enforcement in that person’s mind, if that’s their only interaction with police is going to be, you know, shaped in a negative, um, view and how easy is it to change that in most cases by being polite and respectful and just answering them like a human should,
Captain Oberdorfer: I think the other side of that is just explaining the law and explaining, um, even when you’re responding to. You know, a simple theft call and people want to know why you can’t make an arrest or why, why you can’t necessarily solve their problem. Um, you know, law enforcement laws have changed. Law enforcement is in a different environment now, um, than we were 20 or 30 years ago.
Um, and I think we’re not always the best advocate to our, to ourself and to our profession, but we interact with the public. Um,
Dennis Nayor: And, and you know, I’ve always said our interactions or the active sworn members interactions with the public can be a couple of minutes, but it will resonate with them for years, if not forever. And the time, It takes, is negligible just to have a level of kindness and empathy and, you know, and, and be considerate of, you know, like you were talking process, how things are done, and can you give a break if someone’s speeding, but is it just because they’re heading to an emergency at their home or something just tragic happened.
Can you give some discretion? And if you can, you maybe accomplished the same thing. You keep someone safe. You maybe, um, provided a positive reflection of the law enforcement profession. And it doesn’t take a lot of effort.
Captain Oberdorfer: absolutely.
Dennis Nayor: You know, as Captain, as our time is winding down, I look in the background is obviously a lot of books and things. And I just wanted to know if there’s any thoughts on your part for the listeners or viewers, podcasts. Leadership based books, things that you think are, are worthy of reading or listening to, to help someone expand, um, their ability to lead others.
Captain Oberdorfer: Well, as you mentioned, going through the Sherman Block Leadership Institute really got me reading. Um, and I’m so thankful for that. Um, cause it really has changed and helped develop me as a, as a leader. And, um, I have a little bit of a commute and I’ll usually finish one or two books a month on, on Audible.
And that has worked out great for me. When my kids were younger, I’d put them in the stroller and that’s how I got through all my Sherman Block Leadership, um, books. Um, so, so I really enjoy that. I think it. It gives you an energy and a different perspective on things that sometimes really does allow you to be, to be better at your job, um, both personally and professionally.
Probably my go to book was, was an SLI book and that’s the Arbiter Institute’s Outward Mindset. Um, I just, I really enjoy that book and a lot of the lessons that are involved in that. I think for any of us in law enforcement, when you read that book, you know all the characters or people you worked with throughout your career. Um, you know, Simon Sinek’s books I think are, are some of my favorites. Um, you know, start with why his new book, The Infinite Game, I think is perfect analogy for policing in, in 2024. Um, you know, Jocko Willick’s, um, books I think are, are some fabulous books and sometimes books that you can get, um, maybe people who aren’t ready for some of these other books to read, but at the end of the day, Jocko says the exact same things, some of these other authors like Simon and, um, you know, um, Brene. Brown, um, say about, about leadership and, and how to guide and mentor the people, you know, below you. Um, you know, I always, I go back to the, you know, Simon Sinek’s quote, you know, the managers work to see. Numbers grow, whereas leaders work to see people grow. And to me, that’s the fundamental concept of, of being an executive and comes down to also growing yourself because you have to provide that, that positive example.
In terms of podcasts, there’s some, there’s some great podcasts out there. Um, you know, I, I had the pleasure of, of going through LEPSL with, um, with Chief Neil Gang from Pinole, um, his, uh, His new podcast, The Six Pillars, been one that I’ve been listening to recently. Um, I think, you know, very focused on wellness, but, but also just on policing in general.
Highly recommend, uh, subscribing to that one. Um, and then, uh, Simon Sineks is another fantastic, uh, podcast.
Dennis Nayor: And don’t forget Blue Leadership.
Captain Oberdorfer: Can’t forget LEEDA.
Dennis Nayor: I had to get that in as a plug as we’re about to close out. Captain, thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, especially on those key critical areas of, of training and, um, growth and whether it’s Blue Courage. Thank you. Fair and impartial policing, below 100, everything that makes an officer think in terms of how to do a better job, I think is, is key, especially in these times.
And I really liked what you talked about in terms of that training that makes you really look into the future for strategic planning and, and risk management. And even if someone doesn’t have the ability to go to that specific training, I think just getting that mindset going that, hey, how can I prepare for 2, 3, 5, 10 years down the road and what’s might, might be an issue we’re confronted with.
And, um, thank you for sharing all your knowledge is what I’m saying.
Captain Oberdorfer: No, thank you for having me on. And, you know, it’s my honor to be a, to be alumni of, of the LEPSL program. Um, it was definitely one of. The highlights of my career and has been a fabulous, um, both networking, but also just opportunity and policing. Um, just having those, those relationships with the professors, but also the students has, has been phenomenal.
And, you know, I’ll plug it real quick, but, you know, hopefully we’ll have another reunion, um, at IACP in October. So I hope to see, uh, see many of the alumni there.
Dennis Nayor: Awesome. Well, um, hope so too. And Madi, um, thank you. I know you’re going to come in and take the podcast home. So thanks.
Captain Oberdorfer: Thanks, Chief.
Madi: Of course. Thank you to both of you so much for your time today. And to our viewers, we appreciate you as well taking time out of your day to meet the law enforcement heroes and leaders who are part of the MS LEPSL family. If you would like to watch previous episodes of Blue Leadership, you can find them on the video tab of our Facebook page or by searching USD Blue Leadership on YouTube.
Thanks everyone. We will see you next time.